#204
In the six or so years since he sold his last shares of Blue Bottle Coffee to Nestlé, James Freeman has had a lot of time to ruminate — about how he succeeded in creating a unique café experience, and also the ways he failed his workers as a manager. But he’s already thinking about how he’ll be better in round 2. “I've changed so much — physically, mentally, emotionally — I feel like I could be a better collaborator,” James says.
In this episode, James and Joubin discuss All About Coffee by William Ukers, Oliver Strand, performance anxiety, MongoMusic, farmers’ markets, “first touch” design, Parisian cafés, self-deception, Facebook ads, “great exits,” The Picture of Dorian Gray, “frictionless” coffee, Zeno’s Paradox, Yoda, iced oat lattes, espresso machines, The Devil Wears Prada, Steve Jobs, Angela Duckworth, and sandpaper.
(00:00) - Coffee is culture
(08:08) - James’ music career
(12:44) - Moving into business
(17:01) - Starting Blue Bottle
(20:12) - “Fun until it wasn’t”
(23:45) - Food vs. tech in San Francisco
(25:56) - The coffee shop experience
(32:40) - Dissatisfaction and bad management
(37:24) - Exhaustion
(40:18) - Exit
(41:51) - Anxiety and falling apart
(45:09) - Paying the bills vs. the high life
(49:06) - Visiting Blue Bottle today
(52:19) - The decision to sell
(57:45) - Could he have stayed?
(1:00:33) - The next coffee shop(s)
(1:04:24) - Returning to the ring
(1:08:54) - What if it works out?
(1:10:53) - What “grit” means to James
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